Gianofer Fields 00:04
Meet Me at the Chazen. I'm your host, Gianofer Fields. This semester's exhibit, Insistent Presence: Contemporary African Art from Chazen Collection, is a product of guest curator Margaret Nagawa. According to Chief Curator Katherine Alcauskas, working with guest curators is common. What's uncommon is a pandemic, preventing her from seeing the newly acquired work up close and personal earlier in the process.
Katherine Alcauskas 00:32
Amy and I were very interested in having the number of voices involved in this project. And due to COVID, we weren't able to execute the way we had originally planned. So instead, we thought it was very important that when the project the initiative resulted in an exhibition, that we have someone else bring another perspective on to the collection that was already acquired. And in addition, we gave that person the ability to actually purchase with purchase funds, endowed funds from the museum, additional works to really fill out their concept so that again, the collection was not just the vision of one or two people connected with the university, but something a little more diverse.
Gianofer Fields 01:15
So then when you bring in the guest curator, how does that change the planning of it? Because I know that there's like, there are strict rules with storage, there are strict rules of moving things who can handle things?
01:25
Yeah, so when we have a guest curator, it's not it's not unusual for a museum to bring in a guest. We do it in fact, quite a bit here at the Chazen because we work with faculty who come in, in our guest curators. So for example, a year or two ago, we did a show with Emily Arthur, who was a studio art professor and Robin Rider who's a curator in special collections. So when we have guests come in, there are some rules about handling the artwork. But in this these cases, this was an unusual project, because the checklist for the exhibition was mostly complete. But one of the first steps we did with Margaret after she was identified as the person and she accepted her offer. She came to view all the works in person and so our preparator staff and Kate helped facilitate that viewing so that she could get a very close view at everything that would be in the exhibition, although she herself was not doing the handling.
Gianofer Fields 02:23
I'm going to ask you to do something, and I've tried this before, and I don't know if it's going to work this time, but I'm going to try it. Is there a piece in here, that during the acquisition, you were just like, I love it, but I'm also simultaneously terrified by it? I think I know. But I'm going to ask that question anyway. I don't want to say terrified. But concerned, was there a piece, not because just maybe because of the handling, maybe because of the materials or piece, was it something that you just fell in love with? But you were like, Okay, we have to be extra specially careful with this one?
Katherine Alcauskas 02:58
Well in general, it's interesting, because of COVID, I was not able to travel to the galleries and see the artwork in person the way we would typically do. So there was a number of pieces that, you know, I was like, I, I know, this is going to be wonderful, I feel really confident. But until you actually see it in person when it arrives at the museum, you don't quite know. So it was actually such a joy when the proposed acquisitions were arriving to unpack them, and see them in their full brilliance and be like, yes, of course, if it didn't pan out, we wouldn't have continued to acquire it, we would have sent it back. But that was a big surprise. In many cases, artworks, when you see them in images, they're so different than seeing it in person. So it's, it was always a bit surprising every time in a different way, whether it was because of the coloration, the scale, the presence of the piece, etc. But there was one piece that didn't make us a little nervous, which was the Immy Mali installation [Virtually Mine]. And we can head over there now. And this is a wonderful, really interesting piece. But we don't collect a lot of installation pieces like this. There's a lot of small parts to it. And it's made of glass. So it's very fragile. There's a lot of pieces. Acquiring a piece like this does have implications on our resources, both staff and space and ability to conserve and preserve the artwork. So those are all things we have to take into consideration when we acquire works. But we also try to make sure that those aren't deterrence to collecting the best pieces and showing the best pieces. So we just have to weigh the risk and take it you know, a really thoughtful approach and I'm so glad that this piece is now with us here at the Chazen.
Gianofer Fields 04:51
I can't remember what was in here when they were doing the installation and I think I said to you, I love that sound, and your response was, 'it just makes me nervous!'
Katherine Alcauskas 05:00
Yes, hearing, the glass clinking does make me nervous! Part of our mission is to preserve the artwork. So we don't want it to be damaged in any way. And so hearing glass hit against glass is not the most melodic sound to my ears.
Gianofer Fields 05:16
I wonder if it's changed it for you like now when you hear wind chimes, is there a moment of like, [gasp] 'okay, it's not that!'
Katherine Alcauskas 05:23
No, no, different context.
Gianofer Fields 05:25
good, good, good, good. Because I don't want you to be terrorized by sound, Katherine.
Katherine Alcauskas 05:29
And the sound is, it's very lovely. This is one of the surprising pieces is, you know, we'd seen a number of images, I understood the concept. But when it arrived, one thing I had never imagined was that there's actually quite a bit of movement of the glass plates, they spin in air with the kind of just ambiance, air flow that's happening in the gallery. And that's what's causing also the clinking of them against each other. So those that kind of visual movement and the aural aspect were ones I never anticipated being part of this piece. And that was a surprise for me.
Gianofer Fields 06:07
Do works with sound propose a different set of concerns, especially with sound bleeding from one area to another?
Katherine Alcauskas 06:15
Definitely. You know, we very much want to highlight each piece within the exhibition and give it its space and its due. So that's one of the things we have to think about is how is the sound bleed going to affect the visitors' experience of other artworks. But also, we want to think about the visitors and make sure that there's not, the sound is not too loud, or discomforting, or, you know, we want them to have a good experience here. And similarly, we also want our staff who have to work in this space, to not be overcome by the sound in a space that they're having to work in for multiple hours a day.
Gianofer Fields 06:53
What's been your relationship with this exhibition, since inception, and to now actually standing the gallery, and being in the presence of it and eventually having to say goodbye to this particular configuration, because we're keeping everything, they're just going to be maybe in different places, or maybe put in storage.
Katherine Alcauskas 07:12
So the artwork was acquired in a few waves. And so we were considering things and then bringing them into the museum at different points of time. So when I first walked into the gallery and saw everything installed, I was just blown away, because it was the first time that I saw it all together. And, and as we were acquiring, you know, there was the idea of an exhibition in mind. But we were also really thinking about how is this going to integrate with our larger collection? What areas do we have to strengthen in the collection? And how will this fit, so that there's an African presence in those areas across the museum. So to see it all together, and how it really melds and how Margaret has kind of a range pieces was just amazing. And very, you know, you finally get to the end of a project and it was a real relief. That it's like, yes, it it did exactly what we hoped it would do. And then, you know, her organizational scheme really made me look at some of the works in in a different light. So that that's been really interesting as well.
Gianofer Fields 08:25
Has her style of hanging influenced you? Are you taking, is it something, is it a shared experience? Do you feel like you truly shared and were part of this experience? Or do you feel like once the works were acquired, you were like, Okay, here you go.
Katherine Alcauskas 08:39
I definitely feel like I learned a lot from her vision. I mean, every curator has their own sense of style. And one thing that Margaret did was she included a number of walls that have kind of these large, empty spaces. And they tend to be behind hanging pieces or pieces that are in the middle of the room. So it kind of creates this empty backdrop for them. I have never done that in my curatorial work. And I've always wanted to, I guess fill the space. So to see the way she really effectively utilize that, and it does not look empty in any way. But really give space for those pieces. I was really impressed and will be a tactic, a pickup for the future. Thank you, Margaret.
Gianofer Fields 09:24
So you've given a couple of tours, correct?
Katherine Alcauskas 09:26
Yes.
Gianofer Fields 09:27
So what's been the response? What have you heard as a curator, from audiences with visitors who are coming to the museum to see this this exhibit?
Katherine Alcauskas 09:35
Mainly, I've just heard people say, Wow, it's so colorful. The work is amazing. So beautiful. Beautiful is a word I hear a lot. And that's great, because I know that one of the things that Margaret is interested in is making a really beautiful, joyful experience, you know, acknowledging the colonial history of the continent of Africa but showing the breadth of creativity and life that still exists there.
Gianofer Fields 10:02
I think that's one of the things, because I've been coming to this museum for a decade. Let's just say that. And it seems that in that timeframe, how the museum deals with works from Africa, you know, whether they be traditional classical, there's still some debate about which term to use or whether they be contemporary. And do you see this as, is it fair to say, a watershed moment? Do you see this as a moment where we will see more work from Africa throughout the gallery, rather than or other than being in one particular place?
Katherine Alcauskas 10:39
Yeah, definitely. So, you know, there is a tradition of acquiring like you, you mentioned, both, so called traditional and so called contemporary African work here at the museum. And some of the pieces are, have been in the contemporary galleries. And some have been in the African gallery, which was curated by a group that included Henry Drewal, who is a professor emeritus here of African art and he recently retired. So I think that's also a watershed moment in that there'll be a new person coming in in that role, who will have a different influence on the collection as well. But we are planning for this reinstallation of the permanent collection. And our hope is, in fact to integrate examples of artwork globally, throughout the galleries in ways that really highlight cross-cultural exchange, and the histories of these very complex relationships between countries.
Gianofer Fields 11:38
Does that then, Katherine, does that then invite you to think about how the works are presented? And how the tags that go along with the work are worded?
Katherine Alcauskas 11:49
Yeah, yes, we're thinking a lot about how we present the information around these artworks to the viewer, as part of that process.
Gianofer Fields 11:56
I'm thinking there has to be, you don't want to pander to it. But you want people to know where things are from and why they're here.
Katherine Alcauskas 12:04
Yeah. And it's always a question of, you know, how much information in which information is most appropriate. And, you know, when it comes to certain African artworks, there's a big debate in the field right now about whether highlighting certain histories actually reinforced that trauma. Or so whether it's actually appropriate to include that information or whether the museum space is not an appropriate space to do that. So our team is grappling with a lot of those questions and how the most thoughtful and best way to approach it would be.
Gianofer Fields 12:36
So as we wrap this up, is there one particular piece that you come and spend time with in this show? What is it about that piece that draws you in? Because you're surrounded by amazing stuff all the time. You can go see stuff everywhere.
Katherine Alcauskas 12:51
Yeah, I mean, it's very hard because this is, this has been a really large and important project that I've worked on here. And so I feel so connected to many of these pieces. That I don't know if there's one in particular that I spend more time than others, but they all every time I see them, I have a different thought or it brings me to a different place, which is why I love art and why I love working here surrounded by it.
Gianofer Fields 13:23
You've been listening to Meet Me at the Chazen. Our guest, Katherine Alcauskas, is the chief curator at UW–Madison's Chazen and Museum of Art. Meet Me at the Chazen is a production of the Chazen Museum of Art on the campus of UW–Madison in Madison, Wisconsin. For more information about the museum, its collections and exhibitions, visit chazen.wisc.edu. I'm your host, Gianofer Fields. Thank you for listening.