Illuminating the Chazen's 'dark archive'

Garbage? Detritus? Ephemera—or archival gold? Host Gianofer Fields, Archivist Jordan Craig, and Facilities Manager Adam Hutchinson shine a (figurative and literal) light into some of the Chazen's shadowy corners to find potentially worthy materials that haven't been cataloged yet—the so-called dark archive. From press clippings and a vinyl record to a handwritten note from custodial staff and oodles of back issues, duplicates, and show catalogs (so many catalogs), Chazen Director Amy Gilman and other Chazen staff weigh in on how they view this material.

Meet Me at the Chazen is a podcast about the the University of Wisconsin-Madison’s Chazen Museum of Art, the largest collecting museum in the Big Ten. As we report what’s happening here, we'll also explore what it means to be an art museum at a public university and how art museums can help enrich and strengthen the communities they serve. Meet Me at the Chazen theme and incidental music is “Swinging at the Pluto Lounge,” composed and performed by Marvin Tate and friends, and is used with permission of the artists.

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Transcript

 SPEAKERS
Jordan Craig, Gianofer Fields, Amy Gilman, Tom Wilkowske, Adam Hutchinson, Lindsay Grinstead

[Machine-generated transcript]

Gianofer Fields  00:05
 Welcome to episode two of Meet Me at the Chazen. And I'm your host, Gianofer Fields. Do you remember our Chief of Staff, Lindsay Grinstad?
 
 Lindsay Grinstead  00:15
 You probably have a box of stuff in some dusty, crusty closet somewhere, like we all do, right? And the museum does too, except we had like 50, 70, I don't know, 100 boxes or more in the basement.
 
 Gianofer Fields  00:31
 Well, we found the boxes. However, they were not as dusty and fusty as expected Adam Hutchinson is the facilities manager for the Chazen. And he has key for everything, like the inconspicuous closet right outside our office. And in this episode of Meet Me at the Chazen, we will follow archivist Jordan Craig as she brings the dark archive to light.
 
 Jordan Craig  00:56
 So we are going to investigate all the nooks and crannies in the museum where miscellaneous things might be stored. I mean, we don't know what's there. And I guess part of what I was saying, last time we talked about how the archive is a verb, it's like the process, what makes it not a bunch of crap in the basement, not a bunch of crap stored in closets in places. It's like, no, we go and see what's there. We figure out if we want to keep it, we kind of weed out the noise. Do preservation work to make sure it's successful in the future. And also do like the arrangement and description work so people can find what they're looking for, now and in the future. Or they can find things that maybe they weren't looking for.
 
 Gianofer Fields  01:47
 So we we don't know what's in there. But we do know that at some point, somebody thought this thing was worth keeping.
 
 Jordan Craig  01:54
 Yes. But it hasn't been archived yet. It's been stored, but we are going to go pull it out. And it's actually it's like, you can say it's like a dark archive, quote unquote. That's the term in the field. It's records that are only accessible to the few people who happen to have a key to that closet, you know, and nobody else knows what's in there. We barely even know what's in there.
 
 Gianofer Fields  02:22
 Oh, I don't know what I'm doing any time with this process! Because all of it for me, it's just such, the more and more I talk to you, the more and more I think about that storage space that came with my condo that I put all this stuff in. And why do I still have it in there, because at one point, it was important to me and I used it. But quite frankly, a lot of it is cassette tapes and DVDs and stuff that I now have digitally. And so it's this idea of, you know, Lindsey said it we all have stuff in nooks and crannies in places that at some point was important. But it's not something that we, it's become a noun and not the verb. And so now we're going to re-energize it.
 
 Jordan Craig  03:02
 Yeah, I guess what we're doing is sort of taking these inactive records and making them so we can reactivate them or like people like you can use them to tell stories or historians can like ask questions. I get emails from, even today, I got an email from like someone asking an archival-based question like, Oh, we've processed the records, we made them accessible so I can find it out for you. Like that's what we're doing. We're making this stuff accessible.
 
 Gianofer Fields  03:30
 So now what are some of the tools of the trade we're going to need? What do we got? What are what's in our toolkit before we go upstairs to this closet? What do you, what are you going to bring with you? What do we need?
 
 Jordan Craig  03:39
 Okay, I'm bringing my notebook so I can keep track of any sort of like preliminary metadata, like, How much stuff do we have. And like, storage space actually is a pretty big concern. Now that I'm thinking about it, I should bring a tape measure. And make sure that we have enough space down here to put these things we bring them down. So yeah, notebook, pencil. Pencil important for taking notes. Using ink in the archive is like a cardinal sin. Don't do it. And for us two, specifically, we're gonna need some nitrile gloves.
 
 Gianofer Fields  04:17
 Why?
 
 Jordan Craig  04:18
 Because we're wearing nail polish.
 
 Gianofer Fields  04:20
 But it's fabulous and it's gel.
 
 Jordan Craig  04:22
 It is fabulous. And not only do we want to protect the fabulousness but we also want to protect the records from like getting weird, colorful streaks from us. You know, accidentally putting our fingers across paper like it does rub off.
 
 Gianofer Fields  04:40
 It's all these things. All right, so let's grab our gloves. Do we Do we need anything else? Are we good? Because we don't I mean for all we know Jordan, every magician's assistant from 1970 is going to pop out of that closet when we open the door. We don't know what's gonna happen there.
 
 Jordan Craig  04:57
 I mean, I'm wearing a mask partially because I'm paranoid, but also you might have, a lot of dust and stuff in there you might want to wear a mask.
 
 Gianofer Fields  05:08
 There's some upstairs I'll grab one.
 
 Jordan Craig  05:09
 Up to you. But no, I feel like that's kind of all we need for right now. But if anything weird comes up, we might want to like, double back.
 
 Gianofer Fields  05:19
 Well, we'll just make Adam do it. All right. Should we grab a pair of gloves for Adam?
 
 Jordan Craig  05:29
 I don't know, if he's wearing nail polish, sure.
 
 Gianofer Fields  05:30
 We'll ask him. Yeah, I don't know. Okay, sorry, plastic. I hate using plastic. But I'll take you home and use you to do dishes, I don't know. And then do we need anything else? What? Are we gonna leave it there?
 
 Jordan Craig  05:46
 Let's bring cart, why not?
 
 Gianofer Fields  05:48
 Do you have your key?
 
 Gianofer Fields  06:02
 Hello, facilities manager, Adam Hutchison. Are you ready to sound pretty?
 
 Adam Hutchinson  06:06
 I'm ready, I'll try.
 
 Gianofer Fields  06:07
 Okay, we have one question for you that's very important. Are you wearing fingernail polish?
 
 Adam Hutchinson  06:12
 No.
 
 Gianofer Fields  06:12
 Okay. You don't need the glove. Think about my pocket and you hope for something later.
 
 Adam Hutchinson  06:17
 I can get some gloves? No. Okay. Oh, all right.
 
 Gianofer Fields  06:21
 We know there's a closet somewhere and we know it has some stuff in it. Before we walk through that door. What do you know about this space?
 
 Adam Hutchinson  06:28
 There's two spaces that I was thinking of sharing with you. And one has a number of books catalogs from old exhibitions, previous exhibitions. And I'm not sure how far back they date. And then the other closet space is also a mechanical space that I do not know what is present. But I think its editorial materials.
 
 Gianofer Fields  06:48
 I think it's magician's assistants from 1970 that did the disappearing act. We're gonna find them let's find them.
 
 Gianofer Fields  07:03
 So I didn't need my hiking boots?
 
 Adam Hutchinson  07:05
 Not for the moment.
 
 Gianofer Fields  07:08
 So how often do you find yourself in a situation where since you have keys to everything you're running across, or are there any spots in this in the Chazen that are unknown to you?
 
 Adam Hutchinson  07:20
 At this point, I think it'd be really rare if I didn't know about it. I come across places where I don't always know what's in the room or in the space. But generally, I've been in every nook or cranny and in the Elvehjem or Chazen building.
 
 Gianofer Fields  07:37
 Okay, Jordan, you're quiet. What do you ...
 
 Jordan Craig  07:40
 I'm always quiet. Adam's so much better at this than I am.
 
 Gianofer Fields  07:44
 It's a cooperative event.
 
 Adam Hutchinson  07:45
 We're just talking.
 
 Jordan Craig  07:49
 I'm like looking.
 
 Gianofer Fields  07:50
 So what are you seeing? What are you seeing? And what's your first impression?
 
 Jordan Craig  07:54
 So the first thing I look at is all the labels and seeing lots of Art Scenes [a Chazen publication]. And so we probably don't care about these unless ... like if these are just copies of the ... Oh my god. Yeah. Okay, so remember when I told you that we had been throwing out like, dozens of cubic feet of materials? All of this stuff? Yeah. Because these have all been digitized. And, we kind of just keep one. There is the archival principle of, lots of copies keep stuff safe, but not like this. Because if, I mean, not that this would flood or anything, but like if something happened, and someone started a fire in here, or something, they would all be destroyed, you know? It's, what's the point keeping them all together like this?
 
 Gianofer Fields  08:47
 So then would it make sense to put these out and try to give them away? Because a lot of them look like, at some point, somebody thought it was important to collect this stuff. We still have this stuff,  and to me, like things that are worth saving like, I'm seeing bound books that have not been opened. Right, like, do you see? I mean, like ...
 
 Adam Hutchinson  09:08
 Yeah, I understand. I guess I'll ask the archivist for her opinion. Yeah.
 
 Gianofer Fields  09:17
 Those are the miniatures, we just had, we just had the workshop about the Indian miniatures, and there's a bunch of the catalogs.
 
 Jordan Craig  09:24
 But we only need one.
 
 Gianofer Fields  09:28
 Wait a minute. Wait. Come in here and wait, ma'am. Okay, this is what we're doing. If we're looking at nooks and crannies. Now we've opened this door, and there's all these catalogs, which tells me at some point, somebody thought this was important. As director of the museum, when you open this, what happens, like what, like what does this do to your brain when you see this?
 
 Amy Gilman  09:52
 Well, I think about every museum I've ever worked at that has boxes of catalogs we've produced in various storage places, this is actually small. [laughter]
 
 Adam Hutchinson  10:08
 Wait til we go upstairs. And downstairs.
 
 Amy Gilman  10:12
 You want to have I mean, every once in a while, like you use old catalogs, you know, to, like, recruit people or to, you know, give them things, and you need to have like, one for archives, and then you need to have some, some random number. But, but pretty much, you know, you probably don't need 1,000.
 
 Gianofer Fields  10:36
 I feel like, I'm being rude because somebody has put so much energy and effort to this. And I, you know, we open this door, and there's so much of it. And so then my brain goes through, how can we, how can we make this a verb again?
 
 Amy Gilman  10:51
 So I will say that the closer the more we come aware of the physical books as being objects, right, the more we will be succinct about how many of them we think we're going to want, because it used to be like, long time ago, now 70 years ago, whatever you produced a catalog, and it was like, like, that was the way you pushed things out into the field. That's the way you publish things. And people would look at it for scholarship. And people would acquire these books, the same books for 30 years, right? Well, it just doesn't work that way anymore. But it doesn't mean that the physical books aren't important, it just means that you have to kind of think about because, you know, in theory, when you do a printing project, right, like, the more you do, the less cost per for per book, right? But really, it's like, how many do you want, actually, and because it's all sunk costs once you once you get them? Right, and we've paid for them no matter what it is, how long they sit in storage? And because of the way scholarship works now, like, you're not necessarily, this is not current scholarship after five, 10 years anymore, right? It's maybe something that people refer to and use, but it's not, it's not, it doesn't serve the same purpose. But if you think about them as objects, then you actually decide, okay, well, how many do we want to have on hand? Because they're things that I give to people as gifts. What do you want to have? What's the normal one that you would have an inventory so that you can sell during either exhibitions or whatever? And then like, we're, who do you want to send it to, colleagues? Do you want to send them to libraries? Do you want to send, right, all and that number is different than it used to be.
 
 Gianofer Fields  12:41
 It's funny, because when you when you talked about objects and limiting numbers, the minute you said objects, it's like all of them, all of them. So it's like really like the lens at which you look through objects. And then what's their, what's their purpose? And who's, who's who ... you don't ever have to sneak by where we recorded, you can make noise! Did you use like, Who am I feeding? What am I feeding? Is it? Is it a selfish thing? And in my case, I'm saying yes, because I love stuff and books and things. But then you have to be unselfish in treating the materials and respecting the object and respecting the thing.
 
 Gianofer Fields  13:14
 Yes.
 
 Gianofer Fields  13:17
 All these pearls of .. why people keep making me be rational! Thank you, Amy.
 
 Amy Gilman  13:23
 You're welcome!
 
 Gianofer Fields  13:24
 So Jordan ... so now we've had that brief, sort of like a brief thing with Amy, if you if you had this time to both look at it, first I'm gonna talk to you Adam, because there's more space we could fill up in here.
 
 Adam Hutchinson  13:40
 You're right. I don't know if we want to though, is we want to have access to the electrical panels there and then there's a gate that actually rolls up and closes on Paige Court. So that's kind of one of our security devices that we need to keep clear and try to not have excess materials around, be able to get trades in there if something would malfunction or need to be fixed.
 
 Gianofer Fields  13:56
 So do you ever have to step in and be like okay, um, this collection of stuff is getting out of hand, let's find a better place for it. Or is it proactive? Or is it reactive when you open spaces like this and you see this kind of stuff.
 
 Adam Hutchinson  14:17
 So this space has always look this way since I've worked here, I think in most mechanical spaces, we don't want to be adding materials; we want to be either taking them out or keeping it as is.
 
 Jordan Craig  14:27
 Definitely taking them out. I mean, the ideal would be to get everything from these nooks and crannies and have it all in a centralized location that would just be so much easier from an access standpoint, and then it would free up the space for you too.
 
 Gianofer Fields  14:41
 So is this is kind of what you expect it when you open this up.
 
 Jordan Craig  14:44
 Kinda. Yeah, well, I was expecting like more dust and stuff maybe so I'm actually surprised.
 
 Gianofer Fields  14:53
 There's so much ...
 
 Gianofer Fields  14:53
 Grab two, 'cause I want one ... Well I know the guy with the key. I'll just come back. Thank you. Yeah. Adam, if a black thing rolled up there, can you go grab that for me, please?
 
 Jordan Craig  14:55
 I don't have this catalog ...
 
 Gianofer Fields  15:16
 Oh, it's a banner.
 
 Jordan Craig  15:20
 Gianofer loves her banners.
 
 Gianofer Fields  15:21
 Yes, because we're going to try to make garments out of you remember Marguerite, who used to sit who sit, but we're going to try to get her to style some garments we make out of some stuff.
 
 Adam Hutchinson  15:31
 Excellent. We need to set this one aside?
 
 Gianofer Fields  15:32
 Yes.
 
 Jordan Craig  15:33
 Yeah, let's take that downstairs. I want to be like everything that's on that shelf labeled photo archives.
 
 Gianofer Fields  15:50
 See anything you want? Nope, you have to be quiet. Okay, so Tom, because you're part of this, we just opened his closet where the first thing was, what is an archive? And now we're going to actually try to actively do something. So we opened up this closet and look at all this stuff.
 
 Tom Wilkowske  16:06
 Where's it from? Wait, Adam, was this the stuff that we put down in Mayer [Gallery]? Is that still there?
 
 Adam Hutchinson  16:14
 That's all still there, yeah!
 
 Tom Wilkowske  16:16
 Oh, wow. Because it looked familiar. But it's other stuff.
 
 Gianofer Fields  16:20
 It's all these catalogs all these things? Photographs, a banner. Oh my gosh. I was hoping like, we get something pop out like a you know, like a rabbit and a hat. Poof. But that didn't happen.
 
 Tom Wilkowske  16:33
 Or like a Picasso or something? Hey, Oh, that's right. We had this one. We were gonna put it up ...
 
 Gianofer Fields  16:40
 That was my retirement plan. You know, people just keep thwarting me at every turn, telling me I can't keep everything, Tom giving away my secret for Picasso gold nest ... I mean, as a writer Tom, and you look and you see all these books, and you see all these, does it, you know, there could be something that you actually worked on it is now in his closet and locked away. And so I'm feeling a little bit guilty, because I feel like we're not honoring the work that was done to do this. As a writer, how would you feel if you saw something that you stored in the closet?
 
 Tom Wilkowske  17:17
 What I see here is I've seen just, prints, I'm a print journalist, and I, I jumped into the career when print journalism was declining and declining. So what I see is relics here, actually, I see like, okay, it's all digital now. Right? It's all online, you know, so, like, we made too many copies, you know, so there's like, lots of extra volumes of, like, annual reports. And, you know, this catalog and that catalog and we just overshot our, our, our audience you know, so maybe that maybe there's going to maybe there'll be an audience for some of these back issues, but maybe not. So that's what I see. And there could be some and then this predates my time here, but yeah, there could have been my predecessors might have some gems hidden in here somewhere. Oh, what is this?
 
 Gianofer Fields  18:04
 Read it!
 
 Tom Wilkowske  18:05
 Okay, handwritten note. This is some old person's handwriting. "I believe this chair is leaking. It's seat stuffing. huge pile on floor tonight while I was cleaning your office." Oh my gosh, this is from custodial staff. R. Busse, B-U-S-S-E. Crew 201. Okay, so somebody was supposed to do something about this. I guess. He wanted the person to have a new chair, incredible.
 
 Gianofer Fields  18:35
 So then, is this this archive? I'm gonna keep it.
 
 Tom Wilkowske  18:39
 Wait, vinyl, you have a vinyl record? The Mincourt Trio ...
 
 Jordan Craig  18:47
 Yeah, Wisconsin Chamber Orchestra. I'm guessing this is in the permanent collection but I don't know ...
 
 Jordan Craig  19:02
 Yeah, recorded in the LV Museum of Art. 1981.
 
 Gianofer Fields  19:05
 Well, all right, we'll keep digging, thanks for stopping by, Tom! Because you pass by, I've passed by this door how many times, I didn't think about it. I thought it was whatever, every day I, don't have the key whatever. No idea this stuff was here and I'm so delighted.
 
 Jordan Craig  19:21
 We have more of these things.
 
 Gianofer Fields  19:24
 More of what things?
 
 Jordan Craig  19:25
 More of the Japanese print catalogs.
 
 Gianofer Fields  19:32
 Okay, so now that we know, should we move on?
 
 Jordan Craig  19:36
 I should have bought a flashlight.
 
 Gianofer Fields  19:37
 Oh, well, I don't have my phone either.
 
 Jordan Craig  19:42
 Because there are probably catalogs in here that I don't have, like the Frank Lloyd Wright one. But oh, thank you.
 
 Gianofer Fields  19:54
 So Jordan, is this for you exciting or is it daunting? Are you happy to find this stuff?
 
 Jordan Craig  20:01
 Well, I'd be happy to get rid of it!
 
 Gianofer Fields  20:07
 You, I guess you have to, see that's why I couldn't be an archivist because that'd be like, well, we need 50 copies because what if 49 people come here and they want one.
 
 Jordan Craig  20:16
 Yeah, I'm a minimalist in normal life and my like grandma's like, how can you be an archivist? If you just want to get rid of things? That's the only way you can be, if you look at musty paper and just go oh my god, this is like so special. It's like, we have tens of thousands of pieces of musty paper. No, you need to be able to get rid of stuff. Figure out what's important, you know?
 
 Gianofer Fields  20:44
 And quickly, yes. Okay, so should we go to the next closet?
 
 Jordan Craig  20:51
 Probably. Now that I know it's here, I think I could like come back and if you're okay with opening it up again.
 
 Adam Hutchinson  20:57
 Any time.
 
 Jordan Craig  20:58
 Yeah, I'll see. I'll come back with a list of catalogs that we're missing see if I can match them up. Cool. Thank you.
 
 Gianofer Fields  21:08
 So that was right outside our office.
 
 Jordan Craig  21:11
 Yeah.
 
 Gianofer Fields  21:21
 This is nuts. From somebody who doesn't come from this tradition, like this for me, it's like Christmas.
 
 Jordan Craig  21:30
 Oh, just for me too in a way, yeah. I do see this work. But it'll be worth it.
 
 Gianofer Fields  21:51
 I'll drive.
 
 Jordan Craig  21:53
 Where are we going?
 
 Adam Hutchinson  21:54
 Third floor, the niche between Gallery IV and V.
 
 Gianofer Fields  21:57
 Ooo-ooo! Is that one of the, ope, I'm not gonna say it, I want to be surprised, because I think I know what you're talking about. It is a secret space because that's one of the things that people don't realize, there's all kinds of secret spaces right around you when you're in this museum. And they'll go looking for 'em now that I said that, but there are. So your cart's over half full!
 
 Jordan Craig  22:24
 I was expecting that.
 
 Gianofer Fields  22:26
 So I'm glad you brought the cart! Alright, so now we're on the third floor and it looks a little bit different because we're going through some remodeling I just walked up Sorry Jordan, we just walked off and left you ..
 
 Gianofer Fields  22:50
 It is one of the things I thought it would be. I'm not gonna say, cuz I don't want people to open it. But it's one of the things I thought it would be. Jordan, have you seen anything like this?
 
 Jordan Craig  23:05
 No. Not even in pictures ... okay.
 
 Adam Hutchinson  23:15
 I knew, I knew Jordan had either seen this or had not, and I know.
 
 Jordan Craig  23:20
 I have never ... so wow, this is not part of museum store inventory, this is just extras?
 
 Adam Hutchinson  23:29
 As far as I understand.
 
 Jordan Craig  23:30
 That's wild.
 
 Gianofer Fields  23:31
 "Do not remove any merchandise before recording its removal." And then there's a list here. Cabinets of Curiosity.
 
 Jordan Craig  23:43
 Note: "2021 These locations no longer seem 100%," what? Okay.
 
 Gianofer Fields  23:50
 So now what? So just based on what ... where's the light?
 
 Adam Hutchinson  23:54
 They're not active right now because of the construction.
 
 Gianofer Fields  23:57
  Oh, that's right.
 
 Adam Hutchinson  23:58
 I can run and grab a flashlight, if it would be helpful.
 
 Gianofer Fields  24:00
 How about just your phone? I feel like we're archaeologists now because we got the the sole light. So was this stuff for the store? Or is it, what is this stuff for?
 
 Jordan Craig  24:15
 I think so. So we have Pressing Innovation, so it's being added to?

Jordan Craig  24:24
 So now now that you know what this is, it's stuff for the store, we would not archive this, correct? Oh, no, we would. We would. Right?
 
 Jordan Craig  24:33
 So what we're doing with the archive for exhibition catalogs just keeping one copy for us. Because archives usually aren't a place for published works. We're more like a repository of unique materials. And like Kohler [Art Library] is more like the repository for art books and things. But it's nice to have copies of our exhibition stuff, but we just need one. For our archives. You don't need any of this. So like the amount we keep is just is dependent on needs of the museum store or, like as Amy was talking about, if there are potential gifts or something.
 
 Gianofer Fields  25:07
 So that we won't have to, you won't be pulling anything out of this and putting it on the cart.
 
 Jordan Craig  25:11
 No, I mean unless I see one and I'm like oh I know I haven't seen that but I'm not, oh wait a minute yeah, I do see Passion for Prints, don't have that, don't have this, do have that ...
 
 Gianofer Fields  25:31
 So you have to have an archive constantly going in your brain too, because I would have been like let me go look at the list because I don't know, I don't know ...
 
 Adam Hutchinson  25:37
 Honestly, you have a catalog in your mind, yeah all the catalogs ..
 
 Jordan Craig  25:42
 ... of all the exhibitions more like yeah, 'cause that's all I've been working with for the past two and a half years now, going through exhibition stuff since 1970. Mmm, kind of looks familiar ... I think we're good there.
 
 Gianofer Fields  26:17
 Look at this. Insistent Presence. There's a lot of Insistent Presence catalogs.

Jordan Craig  26:28
 I think this is sort of the same as the other closet.
 
 Gianofer Fields  26:31
 But this is stuff that's more current it seems.
 
 Jordan Craig  26:38
 Yes, I mean, it's more like the other closet in the sense that like I think I need to come back here with a list. There's nothing that like there aren't any boxes that I'm like Oh, I'm gonna go put this on my cart. But I think if we go to Meyer Gallery if we can, I think I'll probably want to steal everything there.
 
 Adam Hutchinson  26:57
 Those just came off the wall when we de-installed the galleries. So prep I'm sure just stashed in there and they haven't been picked up.
 
 Jordan Craig  27:05
 I assume they're going to be they probably, won't be reused because they're like redoing everything.
 
 Adam Hutchinson  27:09
 They're garbage at this point, yeah.
 
 Jordan Craig  27:12
 I might have to steal some, like, I initially was talking to preparators when I started here about maybe saving object labels, because we have object labels from lexhibitions throughout the decades and you can kind of see how the object labels have changed, different fonts, they use different types of paper and things like that, and highlight our like accessibility initiatives and stuff. There's so much you can do with these sorts of things.
 
 Gianofer Fields  27:37
 To be clear, to set the scene, we were came here for the closet but you noticed this on the floor?
 
 Jordan Craig  27:42
 Yes. On the floor in the galleries. Garbage could potentially go in the archive.
 
 Gianofer Fields  27:52
 Detritus.
 
 Jordan Craig  27:54
 Yes, that's a better word.
 
 Adam Hutchinson  27:56
 Ephemera.
 
 Gianofer Fields  27:57
 Ephemera. This is what you have three brains.
 
 Jordan Craig  28:02
 But I don't need to take all of them.
 
 Gianofer Fields  28:08
 So now that you've grabbed that, will you just check in with Kate in the preparators and be like, Hey, I grabbed these things?
 
 Jordan Craig  28:12
 That this is actually garbage. I'm going to make sure. Yeah.
 
 Adam Hutchinson  28:16
 We've been here for over a year.
 
 Jordan Craig  28:20
 Okay, so I'm not too worried about swiping.
 
 Adam Hutchinson  28:23
 I'd say you're good, when you take them off the wall.
 
 Jordan Craig  28:26
 Actually I want the Davies collection ones.
 
 Gianofer Fields  28:30
 A decorative age? Yeah.
 
 Jordan Craig  28:37
 I'd really like to go to the Meyer Gallery if possible.
 
 Adam Hutchinson  28:40
 Sure.
 
 Jordan Craig  28:40
 I know there's some stuff stashed there.
 
 Gianofer Fields  28:42
 Do you know what stashed there?
 
 Jordan Craig  28:44
 It's all editorial archive as far as I know. Again, I think there were Art Scenes, catalogs, exhibition catalogs and then a lot of miscellaneous things that were housed in the editorial office, miscellaneous, miscellaneous ephemera. So I just need to call security quick and let them know. I'm going to open the Paige Court gate, and we're going to set off an alarm and just wanted to give you a heads up thanks, Bob.
 
 Jordan Craig  30:00
 Yeah, although I vaguely remember coming in here and seeing stuff and thinking maybe I want that ... doing my best to look in the dark here.
 
 Gianofer Fields  30:14
 Yeah this doesn't give you much light. Yep. So what is this?
 
 Jordan Craig  30:23
 Looks like we have a bunch of binders of news clippings and things. Which I might want to take upstairs. Hmm, yeah, probably.
 
 Gianofer Fields  30:34
 This really looks like somebody's, somebody's going like a home practice. What do youcall it, a scrapbooker practice?
 
 Jordan Craig  30:41
 Yep. Oh, we have a few scrapbooks downstairs. Have I showed them to you?
 
 Gianofer Fields  30:44
 I'm sure you will.
 
 Jordan Craig  30:46
 Okay. Yeah. Yes, yeah, I'm stealing these, again. Okay, I'm taking them, not stealing them. I feel like it's probably these two boxes.
 
 Gianofer Fields  31:12
 Oh this is just filled with slides and stuff over there, too. So this looks like, I don't even know if you're the thing like it was pre archived, like, fifth looks like somebody made this with the intention of it being saved.
 
 Jordan Craig  31:28
 Yeah, it definitely does look that way.
 
 Jordan Craig  31:30
 The problem is that, like, we don't have any data about these things. So like, the only way you can find stuff is if you like, go and, you know, rifle around through all this stuff. So it might make a good project to create a sort of inventory of the type of press we have.
 
 Gianofer Fields  32:01
 It's interesting, too, because then what what's the purpose of it? Is it to show past? Because press and how we announce things now was so different than it was then this becomes more historical preservation, and maybe more of a noun and a verb? I don't know.
 
 Jordan Craig  32:18
 Not necessarily. It's, again, it's just sort of like what we do with the press that makes it you know? I may not have enough space for all these but ...
 
 Gianofer Fields  32:33
 So now Adam isas someone who's working sometimes around this stuff, does it, are you, how are you feeling about it? Because it becomes, it's like trash and treasure or, you know, obstacle or opportunity?
 
 Adam Hutchinson  32:49
 I guess I work, I've worked around the materials, and I think of what their purpose is. And I think the three of us are talking and one of the questions I keep asking is, what is the filter like you were talking about, like your home, collecting process. Jordan's talking about the collection of archival materials. And so I just keep thinking about, well, what, where's the filter? What are the criteria for the filter? And how what determines what you keep and what you don't, she said, unique, you said things that are important and purposeful to you are meaningful in your life. So what's important and meaningful here at the museum. And I tend to think about those things as I walked through the museum, but I think about it in a more practical way of mechanical spaces, the actual, you know, physical, physical spaces, it's safe for people to be around. Is it causing a hazard to artwork? Is it causing a hazard to someone as they walk through the building as they enter a mechanical room? Those are my filter, my filter is different than both of you as you're talking.
 
 Gianofer Fields  33:48
 So then what's the final filter? And I guess we'll find that out when we get to stuff downstairs and introduce our genius, or other genius, because everybody here it's so bright, Andrea? Yes.
 
 Jordan Craig  33:58
 That's what we're gonna be talking about. Well, our filters, essentially just like how did these materials tell the story of the museum and what do we want that story to be?
 
 Gianofer Fields  34:10
 You've been listening to Meet Me at the Chazen and our guests. Adam Hutchinson is a facilities manager for the Chazen Museum at UW–Madison's Chazen Museum fo Art. Meet Me at the Chazen is a production of the Chazen Museum of Art on the campus of UW–Madison in Madison, Wisconsin. For more information about the museum, its collections, and exhibitions, visit chazen.wisc.edu. Jordan Craig is the Archivist for this project. I'm your host, Gianofer Fields. Thank you for listening.
 
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